Prison Martial Arts

[James Walters]

Greetings to all from Ridgecrest. I haven't been involved in a WHLC forum for some time. Nice to be back on...

One of my student's father is a federal corrections officer. Evidently there is a self defense system taught to the guards that involves strikes to a limited number of points, such as stomach-9, lung-5, heart-1, etc. I think he called the system "PPT". I'm going to talk to him more and see if I can find out references to this system and who developed it.

Secondly and more interesting is this guy's description of what the inmates practice, how they condition, and war stories about encounters with the inmates. The inmates have their own nasty martial arts which seem to center around very quickly taking somebody out with a weapon such as a shank, and fighting while in handcuffs and leg-irons.

Evidently it is not uncommon for some of these bruisers to do hundreds, perhaps over a thousand push-ups and sit ups a day, and to bench press over 400 lbs.

Anybody interested in hearing more about these topics ?

James Walters

[cjperk]

Hello James interesting topic here in Phoenix they just got over a 15 day hostage take over of some of the prison gaurds. I can see where being a guard would be tough trying to keep up when your with those who have nothing but  time on there hands. Sound like the inmates have alot privileges and the prison here I have heard they have gym that put some of our city schools to shame.   Jim

[James Walters]

Indeed, the some prisoners do nothing but work out.

One scenario we discussed is while escorting prisoners who are handcuffed, one slips his arms over your head from behind so the cuffs make a garote, and at the same time driving his knee into your lower back to take your balance. And, this fellow has arms as thick as most people's thighs .

[lmgrahamdc]

Hello James, glad to have you onboard. My comment is self defense using ST9 and Ht 1?  Those are killing points, even in the hands of beginners....  Leslie

[James Walters]

Hi Sensei Leslie,
Agreed about those points...and what is interesting is they think that is non-lethal. I'm going to try and find out more. It looks also like they have a strike or two aimed for the TW points under the ear, also potential killing points.
James

[Jogun]

I doubt they would be as concerned about the results on prisoners attacking a guard although in a case of subduing people fighting it might give an unexpected result.  I could see it not being so good if it was used outside of their work environment and they unexpectedly killed someone in a self-defense scenario.  It is too bad that the term cruel and unusual punishment has been warped to the point where it now means you deserve to stay at a Hilton.

[lmgrahamdc]

Personally I believe in road work/etc. for prisoners. This crap of sitting in prison and working out with weights and learning new techniques of killing is disgusting.  Put them to work for the public in a chain gang.  They certainly deserve it.  Leslie (ps my opinions only.) But when someone says self defense and they are using killing points, that too is wrong.  Let them know exactly what they are doing, because they may use the points under other circumstances and then they may end up in the very place they work. :'(

[Jogun]

I agree with both points, especially the first.  If the people teaching the stuff in the first place have an incomplete undertsanding of what they are doing then those learning are SOL.  Unfortunate

[James Walters]

As I understand it the guards are very limited to what they can do by law. If a prisoner walks by, sucker punches a guard, and then throws his hands up and says no more, the guard can do nothing physical at that point (then it's administrative punishment for the prisoner). Likewise, in an ongoing physical confrontation with a prisoner, there is a limited set of techniques available to the guard.

On the other hand, if there is a fight between prisoners, then the folks on the guard towers can shoot.

Quite an enviroment. And it would be hard to rely on mushin because everyone in there is hostile all the time !

[Jogun]

Ridiculous

[musashis5rings]

my teacher is a massachusetts corrections officer. you might want to contact him through his web site.

 http://www.okinawantemple.com/

[Shane]

I came in a little late on this conversation but are they teaching PPCT "Pressure Point Control Tactics" to
the guards? That's a very popular Law Enforcement System that a lot of agencies use. If it's PPCT, that's
not a Dillman based program.
On another note there is a lot of very informative film that has been made on the some of the techniques
that prisoners practice on each other and train each other in. They have a lot of very effective two and three
man techniques they practice to overcome law enforcement, guards, etc. I agree too that they shouldn't be
allowed to work out as as much as they do.  Prison has always been, unfortunately, a "College" for criminals.  

Shane